dtaforum.psycode.com

[Beetspeed]

Does anyone have PID working for turbo boost control?

Its been 2 years since I asked this before and no-one had it working yet.
Would be very strange that DTA would make a function in their $$ ecu that doesn't work...

This is the input screen I am talking about. I think this is how it should be filled out? Any comments on my settings?


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VW Bug with type 4 aircooled flat-4, turbo, S60
12.04 @ 114.5 mph at Bitburg 2010 (320 RWHP @ 20 psi)

[stevieturbo]

No idea how to fill it in. But I suspect a PWM map might be better, and your valve frequency is far too high. Any other ecu Ive tned boost control on, I'd usually have the valve around 15hz.
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383 LS1, YSi

9.85 @ 144.75mph
198.3mph over 7/8th mile logged by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

[Beetspeed]

Yeah, the PWM map works well, also with this frequency. I use a new N75 Volkswagen valve and apperently they work well with higher Hz. At lower settings it makes horrible sounds.

Pity no-one knows how to use the PID control to work. Why would Allan design a non-working item in the latest DTA series?
Weird.
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VW Bug with type 4 aircooled flat-4, turbo, S60
12.04 @ 114.5 mph at Bitburg 2010 (320 RWHP @ 20 psi)

[stevieturbo]

I'm sure it does work....good instructions might be all thats needed.

Although regardless of PID, I'd have thought it would still need a base PWM map regardless.
_________________
383 LS1, YSi

9.85 @ 144.75mph
198.3mph over 7/8th mile logged by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

[Beetspeed]

[Beetspeed]

Well, after trying out some counter-intuative settings, I finally got the PID closed-loop boost control working
It holded boost very steady within 0.03 bar throughout the range while my complete PWM map was set to zero, so it onbiously doesn't need any PWM settings
_________________
VW Bug with type 4 aircooled flat-4, turbo, S60
12.04 @ 114.5 mph at Bitburg 2010 (320 RWHP @ 20 psi)

[stevieturbo]

Interesting, and excellent !
_________________
383 LS1, YSi

9.85 @ 144.75mph
198.3mph over 7/8th mile logged by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

[Robert]

Hi Beetspeed sounds great well done, could you post the settings you used for PID as I'd like to give it a go too and see how it goes.

Thanks
Robert

[Beetspeed]

[Beetspeed]

At higher slightly boost settings, it doesn't work as well
I guess a EBC really is inevitable with a DTA...
_________________
VW Bug with type 4 aircooled flat-4, turbo, S60
12.04 @ 114.5 mph at Bitburg 2010 (320 RWHP @ 20 psi)

[stevieturbo]

If it works at lower levels, then the problem could lie with the mechanicals or installation.


The ecu can only do so much, but if there are problems elsewhere, its fighting a losing battle. Same applies to any EBC.
_________________
383 LS1, YSi

9.85 @ 144.75mph
198.3mph over 7/8th mile logged by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

[Beetspeed]

Yes, could very well be, but I don't have the time/motivation anymore to investigate. Road tuning is time consuming plus can be dangerous for the engine/yourself/other people and dyno tuning is expensive...
So I ordered a Gizzmo MS-IBC from Grant here and hope to be done with it when installed and set-up.
_________________
VW Bug with type 4 aircooled flat-4, turbo, S60
12.04 @ 114.5 mph at Bitburg 2010 (320 RWHP @ 20 psi)

[stevieturbo]

Point is, and true a external EBS probably is the easy option...but if there are mechanical or installation problems, they will still be there with an EBC.

ie, if the solenoid isnt plumbed right, hoses perhaps not right, maybe restrictiors are required. Maybe the w/g isnt good enough, too big, too small, not plumbed in the best way etc, or simply the wrong size for the application.


Boost control sounds like it should be easy.....it never is !!!
_________________
383 LS1, YSi

9.85 @ 144.75mph
198.3mph over 7/8th mile logged by me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XgWRCDtiTQ0

[MarcoV6T]

The problem with the PID function is that it works the other way around for most of the applications.

Most of us are using a bleed-off style boost control valve, thus when applying more duty cycle on the valve the higher the boost pressure(if possible). But the PID works the other way around, when the boost set point is not reached, PWM duty is at the lowest(the minimum dialed in), when it goes above the set point, it starts adding duty cycle.

What happens in this scenario is that the target boost pressure is not reached because most of the boost signal is directed to the waste gate diaphragm when the boost pressure is below the target(minimum PWM duty), and the gate opens when the spring pressure is reached.

The first thought is that you need more base PWM duty, thus you add some duty in the map(when using this option) and in the PID Min PWM set point. Try again, and effectively you got more boost, but it still isn’t what you dialed in, and it is not stable, ok you add more and then at some point it just overshoots.

And it all get worse when playing with the other PID settings, it just doesn’t react they way you think it should.

When using a bleed-off style control valve, my guess the only option is to use the ‘reverse valve operation’, which I tried and worked a little better, but still not perfect(there was still something not right, but I can’t remember what, because of lack of time I didn’t bother anymore and used a MBC).

Don’t forget when using the ‘reverse valve operation’, that when 70% duty cycle is displayed, the valve gets 30% duty cycle in reality.

PS: I’ve just looked at the latest DTASWin boost settings, and now one can use negative PID values(when I tried, this was not possible), so to make it work with a bleed-off style control valve, try using negative PID values and 'reverse valve operation' off.

[Beetspeed]